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Alternate Perceptions Magazine, June 2020

The Bob Lazar Story: Believe it or Not

by: Steve Erdmann

Bob Lazar has come forth in a tell-all book about his excursions as an engineer and scientist at the mysterious S4 installation near the secretive Area 51 in Groom Lake, Nevada. Lazar writes in plain English that is suspenseful and relentless. If true, we are confronted, once again, with a powerful and secret reality that could leave us suspended in mid-air beyond common sensibilities.

“…of credible witnesses, including Black Aces commander Daniel Fravor about the capabilities of the craft he encountered, have only bolstered Lazar’s story…Fravor thinks Lazar is legit.” (p. xxvii, George Knapp, chief investigative reporter for KLAS-TV, Las Vegas)

(DREAM LAND, Bob Lazar, Simon & Schuester, Interstellarbooks.com, 2033 San Elijio Avenue, #403, Cardiff by the Sea 92007, 2019, 243 pages, $23.99.)

Lazar was attempting to get a higher security clearance than the Q Clearance that he had, moving him to a Majestic Clearance for him to work at the EG&G Special Projects Division. Lazar had worked in scientific communities before, not to mention a lucrative photo development business he owned. Lazar had some publicity from his proclaimed “Jet Car.” Becoming dispirited in working for Los Alamos National Laboratory (LANL), he set-up Lazar Energy Systems. Lazar’s interest in pyrotechnics was hand in hand with his occupation at Fairchild Electronics as a technician repairing broken circuit boards and enabled him to attend school at Caltech. Lazar equally made some profitable business investments, one paying about $100,000 a month at the time he purchased it.

“Success, for us, and for most people, meant making money,” says Lazar. “If it took running three separate businesses, not taking vacations, and having work-related issues on your mind twenty-four hours a day and seven days a week, then that was a price we were willing to pay.”

These pressures, plus his wife’s (Carol) pancreatic cancer, deep depression led to her suicide. Lazar remarried to “Tracy” on April of 1986 in Las Vegas. Due to Tracy’s encouragement and Lazar’s self-determination, his photo business continued ---plus his interest in science and academic life. Lazar built his own Windhorst Machine as well as a Tesla coil. Lazar’s model rocket launches at Salisbury Park were sometimes successful but dangerous.

One of Lazar’s “home projects” was his interest in Plasma Containment and magneto dynamics (MHD)

Eager in continuing his engineering career with Los Angeles National Laboratories at their Meson Physics Facility, Lazar wished to tour the Van de Graff generator.

“I felt like I had stepped into the world of science fiction,” says Larzar. “I was moving among men and women with an intellectual capacity that was as nearly great as the power these machines were generating.” After Lazar was hired, he found his co-workers “serious minded and watchful.”

Lazar attended MIT on bequest of Meson.


Lazar met Edward Teller while Teller was preparing to give a lecture in Los Angeles. Teller had been called The Father of the Hydrogen Bomb, part of the Manhattan Project, and Teller worked with renowned scientist Werner Heisenberg Weis Bohr, advocated for the Strategic Defense Initiative (Star Wars Defense), and worked on the precursor project called Excalibur.

“As it turned out, I got a job as a result of that meeting with Teller,” says Lazar, “and, later, a whole lot more attention than I ever wanted or needed.” (p, 32)

Lazar began his rigorous routine trips to EG&G’s remote site at Groom Lake; one time, he was led to a facility inside a large hill with an entry door to what had come to be known as S4. His handler, Dennis Mariani, was the other person on the bus on that trip, and it was also the time Lazar was given his identification badge which would work as an optical scanner. Immediately there was a quick medical examination followed by a trip to another office where Lazar was asked to examine a stack of folders that gave “overviews” of a “Project Galileo”; there was a mention of “extraterrestrials.” Apparently, some kind of “accident” had been involved in Galileo beforehand.

Project Galileo apparently consisted of several “divisions” where each did not work in concert sequentially and did not share information with one another. No communication between “work groups” was allowed, other than their direct work partners or parties which would include alienation, dismissal or prosecution. Project Looking dealt the materials side of the craft. Project Sidekick explored craft weaponization.

“And here was an object that was claimed,” says Lazar “to be made of a single material!”

Lazar speculates that the technology came from somewhere other than the United States, and it was his function to understand “how” it worked and “if” we could produce it. Someone had filed a possible “origin” of the craft and had determined that it came from the Zeta Reticuli star system: 39 million light years from Earth. A “biological” folder contained black and white photos of a “humanoid organism,” a torso, arm, legs and a “differentiated” mass of tissue in the mid cavity, and other medical notes that were hard to understand, confusing Lazar to the point of losing focus on reality.

Dennis Mariani led Lazar into a special laboratory and introduced him to Barry Castillo. Their assignment focus was a Garbage can-sized cylinder “with no seams, no welds, no fasteners, no sharp edges…It didn’t appear to have been cast, machined, molded, formed, or jointed.” Barry called it an “emitter”; a half-sphere of the same color and material and explained it as a “reactor.” Objects placed between the two points---whether they be candle flames, golf balls, watches---were affected by an “unseen force” that the two researchers could best describe as “anti-gravity.”

“Quantum physicists postulate that gravitons exist as a subatomic particle,” says Lasar. “These are massless elementary particles that transmit the force of gravity. How they could be created or destroyed is not yet clear.”

A “force” between the “emitter” and the “reactor” caused a black dot at the bottom of the “emitter” as an absence of light. It was being bent by gravity---a considerable and intense gravity that the “crew” suspected would take Terawatts of power. All that the “crews” perceived were “slight visual distortions” and no residual heat. It was one-hundred percent efficient energy transfer.

“The question of how this thing worked spun around and around again in my mind,” says Lazar. “Somewhere I suppose the question of how this event could be happening was faintly playing, but far too softly to matter.”

The two-man crew concluded that the reactor could be “powered up” by placing two objects in “proximity to one another.” There also had been “limits,” they also surmised, in which an “accident” had previously come about with loss of life. Perhaps, something to do with a “triangular bet” was in place as to how the system functioned.


Lazar’s schedule to work at Groom Lake was almost spasmodic and unpredictably cruel, but his female companion, Tracy, swore she could carry the burden, backing up their private business. But, as it turned out, “I was being run ragged most days,” says Lazar, “adding to what would eventually be a heap of stress.”

Security was intense and armed personnel ‘shadowed’ the crews existence in the confines of the laboratory; even when they left the lab to use the restroom or cafeteria – to, in, and from.

Only once did Lazar suspect the crafts might be ‘experimental terrestrial aircraft’ when he spied a typical ‘flying saucer’ and was told to keep his hands off any objects. “The powers wanted to understand how this craft’s propulsion system works,” recalls Lasar. The reactor was comprised of three parts: the housing, the tower, and the fuel. The crew determined that the Reactor was being bombarded by a “relatively intense field of radiation within it.”

A dismay in intellectual stagnation enveloped the two when they contemplated what kind of ‘fuel’ was used by the object; using scrapings from the fuel ‘insert’ into a gas chromatograph which indicated that said fuel was a single element. Later, mass spectral spectrometry and neutron activation analysis indicated the same thing.

“I wanted to be engaged in meaningful work and Tracy and I were ‘both adaptable,’” says Lazar, “and would find a way to accommodate the changes that loomed on the horizon for us.”

A mysterious aspect of Lazar’s private life were men parked habitually in a car only feet from his home.

Investigating the possibility of the “fuel” might have been machined from a cone rather than “out of a single flat sheet,” an ingot of the material was sent on a “closed flight” to the Los Alamos machinery division along with instructions. Lazar understood that any residue left from the machining would be returned to S-4.

Dennis instructed Lazar to carry a .22 Cal Smith & Wesson “at all times you’re off-site,” Mariani said. Lazar thought this had traces to do with his possible obtaining a Q-Clearance.

Through his friend, Gene Huff, he became acquainted with friend, John Lear, son of Bill Lear of the Lear Jet fame; mainly because of Huff’s inadvertent mention that Lazar worked at LANL Lazar later learned that Lear had done some work with the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). Gene never pressed Lazar about his duties at Area 51, but, coincidentally, his job at S-4 seemed to bring about an interview with Dennis at a Las Vegas Police Department followed by two men from the Office of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) showing up at Lazar’s home. One agent was Mike Thigpen, and they very respectfully investigated the household.

Lazar said to Dennis, shortly following: “We’re working with an unknown inside a large unknown. That’s not a great situation to be in. Especially if others have known that they could share with us.’’

Not long after this, Lazar and Barry Castillo were escorted to a hanger facility.


The three approached a familiar saucer-shaped craft fifty-feet or so in diameter and about twenty feet tall. No seams inside or out, no panel lines, welds, rivets, or fasteners, cool to the touch and very smooth. The same material appeared throughout the craft as if cooled into shape in some injection moldings. The seats appeared to have been made into the same fashion as if rounded flower petals. They saw no light switches, dials, displays, and a length of pipe ran from the ceiling and exited in the floor.

The second level of the craft had a spot where the reactor sat. The piping ran to the amplifier, and additional tubing ran to the emitter at the bottom of the craft. A “platform section,” or the pedestal, was where the craft rested. They weren’t allowed to explore the third and top “cockpit” section.

Both Lazar and Castillo began to doubt the traditional Roswell story because beings advanced enough to build such machines should not have any difficulty coping with Earthly weather systems and related phenomena.

In eight bay areas of hangers were several more similar crafts.

The ‘crew’ watched as one craft lifted off the ground emitting a blue glow discharge, and its thirty-foot flight had no sound, but they did have a view of the emitter in action in issuing gravitational waves. The craft landed and Dennis instructed the two others to “get back to work.”

Lazar speculated that what they saw was a kind of negative gravity or anti-gravity that removed the gravitational force ahead of the direction that three emitters were pointing. They speculated the emitter allowed the craft to move in multiple directions and could distance objects to it. “…time and gravity are inextricably linked,” says Lazar. “If you controlled gravity, you also controlled time…could have come from another dimension…some point in the future.”


The security oath that Lazar signed covered all aspects of his personal life, discussions, dissatisfaction with coworkers, the food in the cafeteria, sleep, no-pay checks, and even his personal feelings. The watchers that usually parked down that street no longer hid. A police patrol car dispatched to the scene on behalf of Lazar did little to capture the stalkers --- they were merely released. They were not even trying to stalk but came out in the open.

Occasionally, Lazar would meet with his work-out partner “Muriel” for gymnastics. One time, Lazar’s Datsun 2802 was unlocked. He slighted it off as his oversight. However, Lazar was shocked to find his car with both door “…wide open, looking like a fixed wing aircraft.” Lazar says he “…did experience that gut-level twinge and burn of adrenaline kicking in.” Nothing was taken from the car, and it didn’t seem like a usual robbery.

All this certainly didn’t seem normal, nor was having his phones tapped, or having signed a document “that essentially stated that I agreed to waive every one of my Constitutional rights…” All of this indicated that Lazar was under strict control with warnings.

Lazar concluded that it was time to share all this knowledge with someone or fear he might wind up somewhere in the Nevada desert with a bullet in his head and a fabricated suicide note left on him. Lazar selected his close friend, Gene, and Lazar stuck to only items that he could “definitely validate”: he showed Gene the only paycheck he had ever received from the United States Department of Naval Intelligence---$958.11. Lazar declared to his friends that the “dollars – to – headache ratio is way out of balance.”

Lazar’s next ‘insurance revelation’ was his wife, Tracy, leaving out a few personalized details. “I can’t see you making up something like this,” was Tracy’s concluding statement.

Lazar’s next ‘insurance policy’ confession was to John Lear who “seemed more curious than alarmed.” Lear proved himself as trustworthy in several incidents, such as allowing Bob and Tracy to accompany him on some of his Acinak flights.

The sense of ease that momentarily emerged was suddenly destroyed when another “interrogation” was conducted at his home concerning what kind of code (their use of BUFON and GUFON) he and Gene were using. Apparently, privacy was nonexistent. They demanded Lazar to reveal all information about Gene Huff.

Lazar concludes with the unavoidable: “…it was time to make some changes.” “…my days at S4 were over.” He stopped wondering about his security clearance: “I wanted something definitely to be said or done.” (p. 157)

Lazar knew that S4 did a high performance test flight, usually on Wednesday, about eight o’clock. John Lear could ‘check it out’ with his 8-inch-diameter Celestron telescope. John would pack the crew in his Winnebago motorhome and cover the 150 miles of desert to their destination, a spot along Groom Lake Road with their “equipment” ---telescope, binoculars and video camera.

Indeed, an orange light appeared above Papose Mountain but was moving in increments of split seconds at about 700 mph in intervals from different points.

MARCH 29 AND APRIL 12, 1984

Lazar compared the method of investigation at S-4 as “out of the window, where the scientific method didn’t consist of some definitive steps, but were more scattershot…first here, then there, then up, then down.”

A second UFO Watch was planned with Tracy and Lazar in one car, Gene in a rental car. A ’Jason’ also joined them. This time the light appeared to draw closer to their rendezvous point: the glowing object moved towards them. Jason said, “It was like I couldn’t see it move. One second it was there. The next second it was over there. Almost like a strobe effect or something.” (p. 178)

The crews’ next trip of UFO Spotting was on April 12, another Wednesday. This time they made some evasive maneuvers on the roads they travelled. There was one new face, Kristen. Again, the light seemed to advance toward them. To cover their tracks, our ‘heroes’ turned onto a dirt road. Suddenly, local security confronted the UFO Watchers, as Lazar snuck away into the brush alongside of the cars. Lazar rejoined the group once the security car was far enough away…. only to be confronted by a second police officer who wanted to know how four mysterious people had been reported, now there was five. This agent went through the process of comparing their faces to their driver’s licenses.

Dennis Mariani and Bob Lazar met the next day in what appeared to be an atmosphere of an ominous warning. This took place at the Indian Springs Air Force Base, and Dennis pummeled Lazar with comments and questions. A gun was made evident.

The hardest shock to Lazar was when Mariani placed a folder of surveillance revealing that wife Tracy had been in an on-going romantic affair since February 1984: tax dollars at work, and a farewell to one’s privacy. “…and how cliched the whole thing was – with a co-worker that was a man whose contact I’d encouraged and helped pay for,” says Lazar, “…a flight instructor …complicated and conflicted seemed to be the buzz words for everything I experienced at S4.”

“Nothing I’d ever done or said could justify the pain she was inflicting on me,” Lazar says. “I would never do anything like that to her.”

During the second week of May 1989 someone fired a gun shot at his auto when on the on-ramp to the highway via Charleston Boulevard. The shot deflated a tire; two drivers sped away.


John Lear and Gene Huff laid-out a rescue for Lazar: More exposure on the George Knapp ABC affiliated TV show. They chose John Lear to appear with no fanfare. Lazar was to appear in silhouette and use a pseudonym of “Dennis” in their broadcast of May 14, 1989.

Dennis called Lazar and made a vague threat, and he later called again to say that a “personal level” interview was needed. It would be a Las Vegas Casino appointment on a Saturday. Gene Huff and a Joe Vaninerri were to be watchmen of the meeting. Lazar saw Dennis and demanded to know “what this was all about”---and Dennis disappeared into the crowd.

Lazard’s friends discussed the events as only an interlude. The S4 surveillance teams seemed to have disappeared.

“I’d lost one wife to disease and now a second one to work and infidelity,” says Lazar. “No matter how strong you think you are mentally, or how amicable the partner, a divorce preys on your sense of self and self-worth.”

George Knapp set-up another TV session for Memorial Day 1984.

“As far me, I picked up the pieces eventually,” says Lazar. “Over the long haul, things did get better. I’ve spoken a few times at conferences and done some interviews. I’ve had Hollywood film and TV producers contact me. In the scripts they had written they tried to show me as an Action Hero, leaping onto the hoods of cars escaping the bad guys. I’m no Action Hero. If I wasn’t then, I’m certainly not one now. I’m no kind of hero.”

Wednesday, May 31, 2023