By Bret Oldham
John Lear is a well-known UFO researcher who has appeared on numerous television and radio shows and in magazines around the world. His research has led him to some very though-provoking and intriguing conclusions concerning the UFO phenomenon and the alien agenda. John is an accomplished pilot and has flown over 160 different types of aircraft in over 50 different countries. He holds 17 world speed records in the Lear Jet and is the only pilot ever to hold every airline certificate issued by the Federal Aviation Administration. Mr. Lear has flown missions worldwide for the CIA and other government agencies. A former Nevada State Senator candidate, he is the son of William P. Lear, designer of the Lear Jet executive airplane, the 8-track stereo, and founder of Lear Siegler Corporation.
Bret Oldham: John, we met in 1988. You were already doing UFO lectures at that time. What got you interested in UFO research and when did you begin seriously pursuing it?
John Lear: In 1985, I was over at a friend's house and I saw a book called "Missing Time" by Budd Hopkins. I picked it up and I thought that it was kind of interesting. I took it home and read it and it just made the hairs stand up on the back of my head because I knew that this was true, that this was something that was really going on. At the same time, a friend of mine used to fly in Southeast Asia uncover. He was currently flying A-10's for the Air Force. I saw him and asked him what had been going on. He said, "I've been flying A-10's and was at Bentwaters for awhile". I said, "Oh Bentwaters, that's supposedly where that flying saucer landed in 1980 or 81, isn't it"? He said, "Not supposedly, it did". He said, "I didn't get to see it because I was confined to quarters but I know the guys who did". So with those two things I thought I'd better start looking into this thing because as far as I had been concerned UFO's were just a hoax. There's even a liner circulating around the internet that I wrote to John Andrews, vice president of Testers, a corporation who made models. He suggested I look into it and I wrote him back and said, "No, there's nothing to it".
Bret Oldham: Have you ever spoken with any of the officers or witnesses who were involved in the Bentwaters incident?
John Lear: Only Larry Warren.
Bret Oldham: Your aviation records and experiences are well known. Have you ever had a UFO sighting while piloting an aircraft?
John Lear: In 1966, descending into Los Angles, about over Palm Springs, an object moved from between about 35,000 and 41,000 feet. An object moved from left to right and went from behind me to in front of me. It looked exactly like an M2F2, which was called the "Flying Bathtub" and was similar to the airplane the Six Million Dollar Man from the TV show crashed in. When I landed I actually called the key pilot of Lear Jet at the time and told him I had seen an M2F2.
Only years later, 20 years later, I realized it would have been impossible for an M2F2 to have gone into the main approach path to Los Angeles. All that testing was done north of Edwards Air Force base. So that was definitely one that I saw in flight. The other definite one is I was flying west bound from the east coast to Los Angeles in an L1011. I had just passed over Chicago, probably about 2 o'clock in the morning, very dark, very quiet. Then these lights came from the south. They were much higher than me. I was about 31 or 33 thousand feet. Something much, much higher than me came from the south. As it came to the apparent direction and altitude as I was sitting in the cockpit, it went just straight up. This happened about every 20 seconds. I watched three of them. I didn't get a good look at it because I thought it was a case of only one or two of them. After the third one I said, "Hey guys, look at this". Both the co-pilot and the engineer watched and both said they had never seen anything like it.
Bret Oldham: I know you've been out to Area 51 and witnessed some unusual things out there.
John Lear: I've only witnessed one and that was the flying saucer that Bob Lazar took us up to watch. I saw that through my 8" Celestron telescope and I got a really good view. What I saw was a flying saucer. It was yellowish or gold in color and it was radiating something. Something was coming off the saucer in the form of some kind of discharge. It was also yellow or golden. I don't know what it was.
Bret Oldham: You and George Knapp are instrumental in breaking the whole Bob Lazar story. How did you meet Bob Lazar?
John Lear: In the summer of 1988, I had given a lecture at the Spring Valley library. I was getting hundreds of calls. My wife changed my number and took all my UFO stuff because she tired of it disrupting our family life. A guy named Gene Huff called and asked if would send him all my tapes, videos and information. I told him I was out of it now but if I ever got back into it I would give him a call. He told me that he was an appraiser and said if I ever needed an appraisal for my house that he would trade me an appraisal for all my information. I happened to need an appraisal for my house right then so I told him, "let's make a deal". He came over to the house and brought a guy with him who was holding the measuring tape and that was Bob Lazar. Bob had brought with him his resume which contained his degrees at MIT and Cal Tech University of Technology. He didn't believe anything that Gene and I were talking about. He was rolling his eyes and said, "Look guys, I had a top secret clearance at Los Alamos National Laboratories where I worked and this couldn't have gotten by me. I would've known about it". So during the next four months, that would've been July through October or so, we tried to convince Bob that there was something going on up at Area 51. We got to the point where he thought that maybe there was something so he called Dr. Keller and got a job up at Groom Lake and the rest is history.
Bret Oldham: I've never heard that part of the story before. I know they've gone to great measures to discredit Bob. Do you still believe him after all these years and think his story still holds up?
John Lear: Yes. 150%. I still talk to him all the time.
Bret Oldham: Let's talk about Area 51. You probably know as much about it as anybody. What do you think Area 51 was used for in the past and what do you think it's being used for now?
John Lear: It was always used for the testing of not only secret airplanes but other secret weapons. The part to the southwest of Area 51 known as Papoose Lake is where they had the saucers. Now there are two more secret bases. One is Sandia, which is a secret base half way between the Tonopah test range and Groom Lake and the other, I don't know the name of, but it's 40 miles south of Wendover, Utah. Bret Oldham: That's where they have moved part of it?
John Lear: That's where the black triangle's fly out of and all the weird stuff. All the high performance planes and all that fly out of Groom Lake and all the real secret stuff now flies out of this other base.
Bret Oldham: Most of it still underground facilities?
John Lear: Oh yeah. Groom Lake has five levels underground. I'm sure Sandia does. I'm sure the other place does too.
Bret Oldham: You've been at this a long time doing UFO research. From your research, how many different races of aliens do you believe are currently visiting earth on a regular basis?
John Lear: Probably close to a hundred.
Bret Oldham: Really?
Bret Oldham: I know that there have always been rumors that they had Greys out at Area 51.
John Lear: They have five different types out at Area51. As a matter of fact, there's an administration building just for aliens on the north part of the dry lake there.
Bret Oldham: So you think they are still in habitation there then?
John Lear: Oh absolutely. Yeah.
Bret Oldham: Do you think that any of the alien races are inhabiting the earth and not just visiting?
John Lear: Several of them inhabit the earth. I think the Reptilians are underground. They were here long before we were. The Tall Whites have a facility up north of Indian Springs and they're underground.
Bret Oldham: What about alien bases under the oceans?
John Lear: Oh yeah. Many, many, many bases under the oceans.
Bret Oldham: Which alien race do you think presents the biggest threat to mankind and why?
John Lear: None of them are a threat. They're here either to look at us or work with us or, I can't say help us because we don't want any of their help. We just want their weapons technology.
Bret Oldham: The Greys are known for reproducing hybrids to save their own race. Do you still think that's what their agenda is?
John Lear: No. The Greys work for somebody over them. Their job is to see that the human race develops without any hitches. It's a script that we are living, like a movie and we are just playing out parts. What we are doing is, in these human costumes that we wear, our souls are maturing.
Sometimes it takes fifty reincarnations. Sometimes it takes a hundred and sometimes it takes more. What we are trying to learn is to live with integrity and without envy, hate or greed. We keep reincarnating until we've learned this lesson and once we learn it we go to a higher level. The Greys are here to see that we are in reasonably good health, that we die when we're supposed to, and that we live when we're supposed to. They're just kind of the caretakers.
Bret Oldham: So you believe that they are here just helping mankind evolve at the pace we are supposed to without destroying ourselves first?
John Lear: Yeah, that's basically what they want to do. I mean, the people above the Greys are the ones that manufacture the soul. Once the soul is made it lasts forever. It never dies. Each soul to mature needs, in this case, a human body.
Bret Oldham: Yes, energy can't be destroyed so it just transforms to another form.
John Lear: Right.
Bret Oldham: Tell me your opinion about an alien moon base and your conclusions on that.
John Lear: My conclusions are that the moon not only has an atmosphere but it has a gravity 70% of the Earth’s and that the population on the moon is between a billion and two billion, with people just like us. It is the biggest secret in the history of mankind. Apparently the Greys also have many, many bases up there. They take every human up there once when they are 3 years old. Once when they are 7 years old and once when they're 13 years old. They just see that everything is working properly and that we are developing normally. Then after 13 years old they pick us up as necessary to do a little tweaking here and there. They use the underground portion of the moon. The other guys who live up there, the civilization who are between a billion and two billion are just people that live there. They're far more technologically and sociologically advanced than us. They may be in alliance with the Greys in seeing that earth develops.
Bret Oldham: How did you discover this and come to these conclusions?
John Lear: The first thing, a guy in Chicago, his name is Robert Tarilla, said he had a picture of the moon he wanted to show me. So on one of my trips with the airline I used to work for went through Chicago and I was there over night, I went over to Bob's house. He showed me a photo that was taken from Lunar Orbiter 5. It looked down on the Copernicus crater and shows in obvious detail five huge cylinders. Cylinder type things like storage cylinders, maybe 300 to 400 feet tall. They looked so manmade that I started to look for other stuff in that photograph and found in one portion something spraying up which tells you that there has to be an atmosphere or this spray wouldn't be together. So I ordered that photo from NASA, or I should say a contractor. When the contractor sent it to me it came in the form of a 16 x 20 negative. This was in 1998. At that time there was nobody in Las Vegas that could even print a negative that big. It took about five or six years for the technology to reach Las Vegas so that could be done. When it did I had a positive print, 16 X 20 in size and there was just stuff all over! It was a picture of the north interior slope of Copernicus. I took it over to Bob Lazar's and even he had to admit that there was all kinds of stuff. Buildings, bucket wheel excavators and all kinds of stuff. All these pictures are on the website: www.thelivingmoon.com.
Bret Oldham: I've seen some of those and I'll have to say it does get your attention.
So have they been up there longer than any civilizations on earth?
John Lear: Mainstream science says the earth is 5 billion years old . It's not. It's over 25 billion years old. The moon was fabricated inside Jupiter and towed here many, many millions of years ago. They put it in rotational lock mainly so that we can't see all the stuff that's going on on the far side. Now, there is no dark side of the moon. All parts of the moon get equal light but at different times. The moon makes one complete revolution every 27.4 days around the earth. That puts it in rotational lock and we can only see what we call the near side. I've found so many towns and cities on the near side and unfortunately NASA doesn't have a great deal of pictures on the far side but there are extremely revealing pictures on the far side that were taken by the lunar orbiter series between 1965 and 1967. Some of those are posted on The Living Moon. Now, anything that they send up to the moon automatically and digitally erases any signs of life.
Bret Oldham: So it's an obvious cover-up. They've probably known since those early images.
John Lear: Yeah, NASA has known since the beginning.
Bret Oldham: How much do you think our government is in cooperation with alien life forms and for what reasons?
John Lear: We have allied ourselves with what you would call the evil aliens. They're here to create war. The earth is a war type planet. We will never have peace here. Our only job is to mature our souls with integrity and without envy, hate or fear. We don't have to fix the world. We will never stop the war because that's what this place is. It's a war type planet. But we shouldn't worry about that. We should worry about ourselves and our family.
Bret Oldham: Do you think there will ever be full disclosure by the US government or any other government around the world?
John Lear: I think full disclosure will come in the next four or five decades. It won't be a mass release. We always knew it was there. Everybody knows it now so this is what's going on.
Bret Oldham: Yeah, even now it does seem like the general public is slowly getting acclimated to the idea. You've even got the Pope coming out saying the Catholic church says we accept the fact that there's other life forms in the universe and things like that. It seems to be rapidly progressing the last few years.
John Lear: Yeah, but there's no way the government is going to come out and say that flying saucers are real, aliens are here and we've been dealing with them because if you think about it from their point of view, what exactly are they gonna say that won't open Pandora's Box to create a lot of problems. They're never going to say anything.
Bret Oldham: Yeah, they're going to implicate themselves and get a lot of distrust if they did something like that.
John Lear: Implicate themselves is the absolute exact word.
Bret Oldham: In closing, what advice would you give to anyone doing UFO research?
John Lear: Here's my advice, just live your life with integrity and without envy, hate or greed and tell your family you love them each and every day. If you're going to do UFO research, that's fine. Just don't try and tell your best friend because he ain't going to believe it.
Bret Oldham is a paranormal researcher, writer and author of "Ghost Stories Of Las Vegas". Bret and his wife Gina are Halo Paranormal Investigations based in Nashville, Tn. They have been interviewed on numerous radio and TV shows and in magazine articles. Their research encompasses a wide-range of subjects, including UFOs, Ghosts and Cryptozoology with special emphasis on alien abductions and EVP/ITC communication.
Halo Paranormal can be found on their Myspace Page.